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MINUTES OF THE HERALDS MEETING – March 2, 2025
(11:05 AM AM to 12:38 PM)
ATTENDEES:
Domamir Vlatko syn, Vesper; Edith of Swanesdale, Matins; Hirsch von Henford, Golem; Moira of Kent, Seawolf; Moss of Little Marsden, Seawolf Deputy; Eilis ni Roibeard O'Boirne, Green Crown; Anne FitzRichard, Stellanordica; Elewys Gwynne, Black Mark Pursuivant, Deputy Seawolf Herald; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym ap Morgan o Erryrys, Green Trumpet; Astrith of Swansvale, HE; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Green Banner; Keysie of Tarnmist.
COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
The March meeting was held via online conference, future meetings will be held via online conference until Vesper announces otherwise.
Herald’s Meetings for 2025:
May 18, July 13, September 21, and November 16.
Proposed Herald's Meetings for 2026:
January 4 (12th Night, In-Person) 10 am (vs the normal 11), March 15, May 17,
July 12, September 13, November 22.
Meetings usually begin at 11:00 AM and will be held via online/remote teleconference until
further notice.
The DEADLINES for submission forms and documentation are:
2025 Deadlines: May 7, July 2, September 10, and November 5.
Submission forms must be complete and received either via EMAIL or hardcopy by the deadline date at midnight to be considered at the next meeting (which is about 11 days later, except December due to holidays and the roadshow meeting prep time needed). If the forms are EMAILED, then payment must arrive by the meeting day. WALK-IN submissions will not be accepted while meetings are held via remote conference.
REPORTS
Vesper (Damir): Tourney season is coming! Whiteshield is scheduled for next Sunday. There will be a few Heralds office changes coming soon. If you have questions about the CoA, BoD, and Peerage Poll, please reach out to him.
Seawolf (Moira), Deputy (Moss): This is Moira’s final report as SeaWolf Herald. With the guidance of Vesper and the permission of Their Highnesses of the Mists, they have chosen Moss of Little Marsden as her successor, assisted by Elewys Gwynne as Deputy. They will be working as a team to share the duties of the office. They have been meeting virtually for several months now to go over the responsibilities of SeaWolf and how best to support Their Highnesses and the populace. Moira will be turning over the office at Darkwood White Shield Tournament on Saturday, March 8, at which point she will be taking over the office of Green Crown Herald.
Sable Swan (Victoria): Teagan Ulfsdotter has volunteered to be Victoria's successor. They have begun meeting to talk about the transition. She will be training at Cyngua's Coronet list in May, and assuming the office at Investiture in July.
Stellanordica (Anne): The Winter Coronet court report is pending, she will get this completed. Coronet went well and they are looking forward to the next one. Stellanordica continues to work with and support the local heralds throughout the Principality.
Exchequer (Moira): The College remains solvent. Vesper, Matins, and the Exchequer have been working with the Kingdom PayPal deputy, and they are in the final stages of setting up PayPal to allow electronic payment for submissions. They'll have a procedure in place by mid-March in order to accept PayPal payments for the May meeting. There are already some submissions lined up to be test cases.
Matins (Edith): Many thanks to Ræv Kolfinsson who has provided redraw assistance for Matins and submitters again this month. At virtual KWHSS in January, Laurel reminded submission heralds that name submissions are required to provide their own documentation of the names submitted. While the Kingdoms and College of Arms can try to assist if and how they can, this can take a lot of time and may not be a reasonable expectation. She reminds the Kingdoms: it is acceptable to return submissions for lack of documentation.
Baldric (training deputy): Eilis is stepping into this role after stepping down from Green Crown.
Brachet (vacant), Leveret (Ræv).
Green Cloak (Alizan): Green Cloak is looking for a successor. No report received.
Green Crown (Eilis): Many thanks to Catriona for helping with Their Majesties' court when Eilis lost her voice. Moira will be taking over this office and Eilis will be stepping into the role of Baldric.
Green Trumpet (Gwenhwyfaer): There is nothing to report as there have been no Kingdom events this period. Green Trumpet will be at March Crown.
Green Banner (Aasa): Things have been pretty quiet since Twelfth Night, although with tourney season starting, Aasa expects things to be picking up soon. She plans to have the Consultation Table at Spring Crown. If anyone has a spare chair or two that she could borrow for the table, it would be greatly appreciated.
Aasa will be out of the country for effectively the first half of April, but otherwise plans to get to as many events as possible. She will be taking requests, especially for local events, in order to make the Consultation Table as accessible and available as possible.
Golem (Hirsch): There isn’t a lot to report since the 12th Night meeting. A few ceremony updates, awards lists and court reports … all mostly working as expected. There have been a few reports that Golem has had to chase down, but otherwise, the Royalty are responding to reports fairly quickly.
With Crown and other major events coming up, Golem expects an upsurge in the amount of court reports.
ANNOUNCEMENTS / Other Business
GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTSFacebook Page: The West Kingdom Heralds' have their own page on Facebook, announcements, help with consultation, and more are often done there:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/302970543102065/
The West Kingdom web team have added a Discord channel for heraldry, which is used for consultation, look for the #heraldry group.:
MAILING LIST: The Yahoo hosted mailing lists have been closed by the folk at Yahoo. At this time, we no longer have a means of communicating with the College of Heralds except the Facebook Page noted above, or via email. To make it possible to post announcements from senior staff heralds, there is a new Announcements page (link removed, as this page was not used and removed from the site).
ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at https://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, https://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Vesper at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.
Also see above for the Kingdom Heralds' Facebook page and Discord channel.
BRACHET MEETINGS
Contact brachet@heralds.westkingdom.org for external commenting participation.
FROM THE LOARS
The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.
November, 2024 LoAR (printed January 8, 2025) (West - No LoI)
Cover Letter
West Acceptances - November LoAR
West Returns - November LoAR
None.
December, 2024 LoAR (printed February 4, 2025) (West - September 2024 LoI)
Cover Letter
West Acceptances - December LoAR
West Returns - December LoAR
West Pended Items - December LoAR
January, 2025 LoAR (printed March 1, 2025) (West - No LoI)
Cover Letter
West Acceptances - January LoAR
West Returns - January LoAR
(None)
In Service,
Edith of Swanesdale, HE,
Matins Herald
SUBMISSONS – March (2025)
ITEMS SENT TO LAURELBren Keely (Resub Device sent to Laurel)
Originally submitted on the Sept 2024 LoI, this device was withdrawn before registration. The resubmission changes the location of the mullets around the dragonfly.
Argent, a dragonfly azure between five mullets, two, two and one, sable, a bordure azure.
Éloïse Broussard (NEW Name and Device sent to Laurel)
The submitter cares about the language and/or culture (French) and the gender (female) of the name.
Éloïse - alternative spelling of Héloïse (1090?/1100–1? – 1164),
French nun, writer, scholar, and abbess, lover of Peter Abélard Helvisa
[http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/3009.txt]
given names appropriate for a noble woman born around 1071 in or around what is today Normandy.
* Heilewis 1189, * Heilewisa 1160, * Helewis 1189x99 * Elewisa 1221 + Helvisa bef. 1120
From NCS Family Search: Eloise Cloison, 9 January 1586, St. Botolph Aldgate, London, England, FamilySearch B00047-6 [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC96-H8H?lang=en].
Broussard – From Family Search, in France:
Pierre Broussard, Burial, November 1637, Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, France [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPJF-FQHR] – image 1 attached
Sebastien Broussard, Burial, March 1650, Saint-Dolay, Morbihan, Bretagne, France [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:C714-C5N2?lang=en] – image 2 attached
From the submission of <Sorcha Broussard> registered 01-2010: found as a French family name in “Dictionnaire etymologique de noms du famille et prenoms de France”, Dauzat, p. 70 s.n. Brousse. The citation is not dated, but there is a castle in southern France by the name of Brousse-le-Château. It is situated on the Tarn River and the area was occupied since Roman times; in early years, its residents charged people the right of passage, on its advantageous position to cross or go down the river. The village of Brousse itself is on the confluence of the Tarn and the Alrance, where at the top of the old part of the village is the 12th C castle. The castle was built on the rocky outcrop by the Counts of Rouergue. [http://www.le-guide.com/aveyron/brousse-le-chateau/index.html] While the Brousse citation is undated in Dauzat, it seems reasonable that Brousse could've been a period locative; the reference to Broussard is defined as a "pejorative", leading (original submitter) to believe that a resident of the village/area, being called Broussard, might've been the equivalent of connoting a person from the country, or someone who lives out in the boonies (a rustic or someone from the sticks). On the other hand, the Dauzat citation also includes the terms brosse and broussaille; (original submitter’s) Junior Classic Dictionaries French-English and English-French Dictionary defines these terms as "brush" (as in plant growth) and "bramble/brushwood," respectively. Since (orginal submitter doesn’t) speak French, adequately summarizing the Dauzat entry is pretty laughable, although (original submitter will) go out on a limb and say perhaps Brousse is a byname that connotes someone living in an area dominated by brush or brambles.
<Pierre le Broussard> was the name of a 15th c. French Inquisitioner, associated with a group of witch trials in Arras in the 1450s and/or 1460s. He's mentioned in several books, including La vauderie d'Arras: une chasse aux sorcières à l'automne du Moyen-Âge by Franck Mercier [http://books.google.com/books?id=tsF9AAAAMAAJ] and Gender in Pre-Hispanic America: a symposium at Dumbarton Oaks edited by Cecilia Klein [http://books.google.com/books?id=xGk2jgUjaIgC].
The French name formation <given + byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.
Device:
Per chevron inverted nebuly azure and argent, a crescent argent and three mushrooms purpure.
Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym ap Morgan o Erryrys (Blazon Change)
Request to reblazon:
Argent, a dragon passant, tail coward, purpure within a bordure azure. Registered: September, 1989 via the West.
Request to remove ‘coward’ as this tail neither wraps around the legs nor is tucked between. Submitter’s preference is ‘tail to base’.
Henry Luton (NEW Name & Device sent to Laurel)
The submitter cares about the sound (none noted) and gender (male) of the name.
Henry – from NCS FamilySearch: Henry Isgac, 31 December 1598, Siston, Gloucester, England, FamilySearch B00841-2 [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC9F-SQX?lang=en].
Luton – from NCS FamilySearch: Joan Luton, 10 March 1596, Siston, Gloucester, England, FamilySearch B00841-2 [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC9F-WJ6?lang=en].
The English name formation <given + byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.
Device:
Per chevron nebuly gules and Or, in dexter chief an escallop inverted Or.
This is clear of Eleanor Deyeson’s Bendy sinister engrailed argent and azure, an escallop inverted Or due to SENA Appendix A5.F.1.b Substantial Change of Direction of Division.
Keysie of Tarnmist (NEW Name sent to Laurel)
The submitter will NOT accept ANY changes to the name and cares about the gender (female) of the name.
Keysie - from NCS FamilySearch: Jhon Keysie married 3 Feb 1613 All Saints, Worcester, Worcester, England, Batch M02051-1 [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVZG-XQX?lang=en]. Surnames from the second half of the 16th C and early 17th C may be used as given names; they are treated as any other 16th C given name [Alton of Grimfells, 04/2010, A-East] per SENA Appendix A.
of Tarnmist - utilizing the branchname <Tarnmist>, Barony of Tarnmist registered May 1985 via the West. The name formation <given of Branchname> per the Branch Name Allowance from SENA PN1.B.2.f.
Pompeius Pius (NEW Name & Device sent to Laurel)
The submitter will accept the following changes: Pompeiius Pius.
The submitter cares about the sound (Pius), culture (5th century roman), and gender (male) of the name.
Pompeius - from NCS “A Simple Guide to Imperial Roman Names” by Ursula St. George documents <Pompeius> as a nomen [https://heraldry.sca.org/names/roman.html].
Pius: from “The Prosopography of the Later Roman Empire” by J. R. Martindale, copyright Cambridge University Press 1980: Pages 887 and 1278: Flavius Pius Maximus signo Marianius [https://books.google.com/books?id=G5W6vCO_pYUC&lpg=PA898&pg=PA898#v=onepage&q&f=false].
The late period Roman name formation <nomen + cognomen> is acceptable NCS “A Simple Guide to Imperial Roman Names” by Ursula St. George [https://heraldry.sca.org/names/roman.html].
Device:
Sable, a cat rampant contourny maintaining a stave surmounted by a Chi-Rho argent,
on a chief Or three suns gules.
Xochitl Citlalli (NEW Name and Device sent to Laurel)
The submitter will accept the following changes: minor changes - spelling.
The submitter cares about the language and/or culture (none noted) and gender (female) of the name.
Xochitl - from Codex Borgia written in 1521 after the goddess Xochiquetzal. Human - Empress from the Toltec Empire (d.916). The Book of Tributes: Early Sixteenth-century Nahuatl Censuses from Morelos (Museo de Antropología E Historia, Archivo Histórico, Colección Antigua, Vol. 549) p.28 [https://archive.org/details/bookoftributesea0000unse].
Citlalli – from NCS Family Search: Diego Citlalli, Christening, Feb 1629, Santiago, Nopalucan, Puebla, Mexico, C02642-2 [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NR6M-TVL?lang=en].
The Spanish name formation <given + byname> is acceptable per SENA Appendix A, if we count this as classifiable as a Spanish name. “The Book of Tributes” does list the censused people with two names - generally two Nahuatl names if they had not been baptized with a Spanish given name.
Device:
Sable, an axolotl within an orle of marigolds Or.
RETURNS – March (2025)
None!
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