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MINUTES OF THE HERALDS MEETING – July 21, 2023
(10:58 AM to 12:54 PM)
ATTENDEES:
Antonio Giordano, Vesper; Edith of Swanesdale, Matins; Hirsch von Henford, Golem; Catriona inghean ui Chionaodha, Stellanordica; Na'arah bat Avraham, Pinnacle; Astrith of Swansvale, HE; Eilis ni Roibeard O'Boirne, HE; Ræv Kolfinnsson, Leveret; Anne Fitz Richard, Princess of Oertha; Mika Knosia.
COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
The July meeting was via remote conference, as will be the upcoming meetings until Vesper announces otherwise.
Heralds’ Meeting for 2023: September 17, November 12. Proposed Heralds’ Meetings for 2024: January 7, March 3, May 19, July 14, September 29, November 3. Meetings usually begin at 11:00 AM and will be held via online/remote teleconference until further notice.
The DEADLINES for submission forms and documentation are: Deadlines: September 6, November 1. Pending 2024 Deadlines: December 20, 2023 for the January 2024 meeting, February 21, May 8, July 3, September 18, and October 23.
Submission forms must be complete and received either via EMAIL or hardcopy by the deadline date at midnight to be considered at the next meeting (which is about 11 days later, except December due to holidays and the roadshow meeting prep time needed). If the forms are EMAILED, then payment must arrive by the meeting day. WALK-IN submissions will only be considered if there is time, but in most cases will be delayed until the next meeting so that each submission can be reviewed fully.
REPORTS
Vesper (Antonio): Deputy (Eilis): He will work on the proposed calendar dates. A reminder that January will be in-person only at Twelfth Night.
Information regarding the opening for the next Vesper will be coming soon. Please contact Vesper.
Seawolf (Moira): The Ceremony for the new honor created by Their Highnesses at Their Investiture has been inserted into the Mists Ceremony book by Golem Herald, and the revised book uploaded to the Heralds website.
Barring the creation of any new awards, this should be the last of the revisions to the Mists Ceremony book for the foreseeable future.
Sable Swan (Victoria): The last month was busy with preparing for Investiture.
Investiture went very well with several volunteers helping with Court heralding (Caoilinn, Cormac, Moira, Richard Talbot). A big thank you to Alizan for handling Royal court.
She wants to thank all of the Principality royals for communicating Their awards list the week before the event that allowed arranging and printing the lists in a readable format, i.e. large font.
She had several members of the populace talk to her about getting involved in heralding at events in the coming months, and she will be doing her best to get them involved as much as possible.
Stellanordica (Catriona): Coronet happened. Many thanks to all who heralded while she was unavailable. She will ensure that a few new local heralds have been properly rostered.
Exchequer (Damir): Successor (Heinreich): The College remains solvent. It's been discovered that Bank of the West will not be a good choice for us as our on-going balance is below their minimum to avoid account fees. Master Edmund has offered to help in looking for alternates and Damir is following up with him on that.
Matins (Edith): The submissions process continues to move. If you work as a consulting herald, please advise submitters that electronic payment for submissions is not yet available, and refer them to the West Heralds website, submission page, on how and where to send in fees.
Generic how-to-fill-out-a-check on the website?
Create rule where funds have to come from the submitter, not through a herald.
Green Crown (Domamir): Kingdom court reports are being submitted, Her Majesty is slightly behind in confirming but assures us she will catch up soon.
Baldric (training deputy): Vesper is running training as a College-wide program, not assigned to a specific individual at this time.
Brachet (vacant).
Green Cloak (Alizan): Green Cloak is seeking a successor, please contact Vesper.
Green Trumpet (Gwenhwyfaer): Green Trumpet attended June Crown and provided service to the Crown and Populace of the West.
The first thing we noticed was that the sound profile for the site was dead! This resulted in the 8am Saturday announcements initially not being heard by very many. A volunteer offered to make a second run for the early announcements which was gratefully accepted. As a result of this discovery, double coverage for all scheduled announcements was put in place.
We were fortunate that several new people volunteered to do the duty shouts and we were thus able to achieve decent coverage of the camp.
All of the new voice heralds expressed interest in continuing with the work. A list of the volunteers follows (Mercy Grym, Sven Gotfriedsen, Rorik Darkinson, Rhuidri (new), Jeffrey (new), Sven brought along his lady Catherine who proudly told me she had done her first Herald’s shout and could she do some more please.)
All in all, everything went well for the Green Trumpet office. The next event will be Purgatorio.
Green Banner (Aasa): No report received.
Golem (Hirsch): Golem has been doing mostly the same ol’ same ol’ – updating things as needed, and so on. A lot of small coding things, he found some changes that had been needed for the roster hadn’t been uploaded to the server, but that was an easy fix.
Updating the ceremony book for the new ceremonies (Scarves of Achievement), and some other changes – worked with Eilis on these when she was in town after Crown, before she went off to the An Tir/West War. Among the ceremony changes were changes to the “New Peer Packets”, with strong hints on ways to shorten some of the extremely long ceremonies we’ve been seeing. Eilis made a suggestion that would need to be approved but – have some cards printed with QR Codes (which he can generate easily) and the link to the New Peerage Packets. It might be cheaper to just buy some card stock and print them ourselves directly, but the idea being that once someone has been offered membership into one of the orders, hand them this card, they can go straight to the new peerage packet and not have to look for it, and it may help a lot. This would require the herald if offered in court, or possibly the peerage clerk, or … to remember to pass them out as needed.
Golem has been working with Raev Kolfinsson to update the armory images for active branches (on the History website) to vector graphics (less, if any, pixalation when they are enlarged), including badges registered for groups. He’s also corrected some armory that wasn’t … right (misinterpretations of blazon or whatever). Raev has worked with the Heraldic Archivist to get original submission images in some cases to fix some of the issues. This will assist with people who want to make banners, and so on. By the time of the meeting this project was completed.
Court Reports are mostly coming in, in a pretty timely fashion, although a couple have come in a few months after the event. As long as they come in … sooner is usually better, but things happen.
ANNOUNCEMENTS / Other Business
GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTSFacebook Page: The West Kingdom Heralds' have their own page on Facebook, announcements, help with consultation, and more are often done there:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/302970543102065/
MAILING LIST: The Yahoo hosted mailing lists have been closed by the folk at Yahoo. At this time, we no longer have a means of communicating with the College of Heralds except the Facebook Page noted above, or via email. To make it possible to post announcements from senior staff heralds, there is a new Announcements page (link removed, as this page was not used and removed from the site).
ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Vesper at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.
BRACHET MEETINGS
Contact brachet@heralds.westkingdom.org for external commenting participation.
FROM THE LOARS
The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.
April, 2023 LoAR (printed June 13, 2023) (West - Jan. 2023 LoI)
Cover Letter
West Acceptances - April LoAR
West Returns - April LoAR
(None)
May, 2023 LoAR (printed July 10, 2023) (West - No LoI)
Cover Letter
West Acceptances - May LoAR
West Returns - May LoAR
(None)
In Service,
Edith of Swanesdale, PaL,
Matins Herald
SUBMISSONS – July (2023)
ITEMS SENT TO LAURELGoold Otyr Herault
The submitter cares about the meaning (gold-colored otter) and does not care about the gender of the title. The submitter did not check the box, but listed the following under the field for acceptable changes: Otyr d'Or Herault, Gold Otyr Herault
Goold - Middle English "gold," MED s.v. gōld (adj.) (https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED19032/track?counter=1&search_id=25775200) accessed 6/28/2023.
The spelling is found in the quotations. Goold is shown under 4. Her. Golden, yellow, d'or.
Otyr - Middle English "otter," MED s.v. oter (n.) (https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary/MED31004/track?counter=1&search_id=25775342) accessed 6/28/2023.
The spelling is found in the quotations. Otyr is found under 1.(a) The European otter Lutra vulgaris.
Herault - Middle English designator for the rank of Herald in "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith), Siren Herald (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitlesSCA/index.shtml) accessed 6/28/2023.
The Middle English heraldic title constructions color + charge + designator (9) and charge + color + designator (2) appear in "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith), Siren Herald (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitlesSCA/index.shtml) accessed 6/28/2023.
Submitter was granted the rank of Herald Extraordinary on April 29, 2023, in the West and is therefor entitled to register a personal heraldic title. Submitter is aware of the conflict with Ealdormere's Golden Otter Pursuivant and Order of the Golden Otter and has reached out to Trillium PH to request permission to conflict.
The submitter will accept the following changes: For authenticity, the most important thing is my sons name, Samuel Abu Sumayl.
And cares about the language and/or culture (11-13th century Norman/Arab/Byzantine culture of Sicily) and gender (male) of the name.
The previously registered Ibrahim ibn Da'ud al-Qal'at Fimi al-ma'r{u-}f bi-Butrus is to be released upon registration.
All of the statements about name elements and their sequencing are from NCS "Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices", by Da'ud ibn Auda [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm].
Sumayl - from NCS “Andalusian Names: Arabs in Spain”, by Juliana de Luna: Sumayl [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/andalusia.html].
"kunya". An honorific name or surname, as the father or mother of someone. When using a person's full name, the kunya precedes the personal name. This one translates as "the father of Sumayl".
Ibrahim - from NCS “Andalusian Names: Arabs in Spain”, by Juliana de Luna: Sumayl [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/andalusia.html].
"ism". A personal, proper name given shortly after birth.
Formed to Abu Sumayl Ibrahim as per NCS “Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices”, by Da'ud ibn Auda: kunya [the father of Sumayl] + ism. The use of Ibrahim as an ism is also listed in this same article under the description of an ism. [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm].
ibn Da’ud - from NCS “Andalusian Names: Arabs in Spain”, by Juliana de Luna: Sumayl [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/andalusia.html]. formed into a nasab meaning “son of X” from NCS “Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices”, by Da'ud ibn Auda [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm].
“nasab". A pedigree, as the son or daughter of someone. The nasab follows the ism in usage. Nasabs may be extended for several generations.
ibn al-Basir - Basir from NCS “Andalusian Names: Arabs in Spain”, by Juliana de Luna: Sumayl [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/andalusia.html], formed into a nisba meaning “of descent, derived from the name of a person’s tribe of birth or family lineage …” from NCS “Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices”, by Da'ud ibn Auda [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm].
"nasab" and "loqah". Nasabs may be extended for several generations. A laqab is a combination of words into a byname or epithet, usually religious, relating to nature, a descriptive, or of some admirable quality the person had (or would like to have).
al-Qal'at Fimi - Qal’at Fimi from the now Latinized to Calatafimi for the locative Arabic Nisba is from the website “Calatafimi Turismo” [https://calatafimiturismo.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/history/] formed as a geographical nisba as per NCS “Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices”, by Da'ud ibn Auda [http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm].
"nisba". A byname. Nisbas follow the ism or, if the name contains a nasab (of however many generations), generally follow the nasab.
The Arabic name formation <kunya + ism + two generations of nasab + nisba + nisba> is derived from information found in Da'ud's article cited above. SENA, Appendix A, references this article. Da'ud states : "there are a very few examples which extend to four generations, such as Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Ja'far ibn al-Haddad."
The submitter noted on the form for this badge to be associated with the name “Company of the Ermines of Saint George”, but this name is not registered.
Sable, an ermine passant ermine.
Argent, within a torii gate gules a rapier fractured in chevron sable, all within an orle of thorns vert.
The submitter will not allow any changes and does not care about the gender of the name.
Erasmus - NCS Withycombe, pp. 104-105: Erasmus Paston 1540, Sir Erasmus Dryden 1553-1632, Sir Erasmus Earle 1590-1667. The submitter's URL, when searched for the case title, provides the date range 1547-1553.
Shirley - NCS Reaney & Wilson, p. 406: William Shirley 1442. The submitter's URL, when searched by the case title provides the date range of 1538-1660.
Hert - NCS Reaney & Wilson p. 219 under the header <Hart, Harte, Heart, Hort, Hurt>. Roger Hert 1166,Simon le Hert 1197. The submitter's URL, when searched by the case title provides the date range of 1518-1529.
The English name formation <given + double byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.
Meeting Minutes: concerns of possible offense were raised during the ILoI commentary and reviewed at the meeting. The decision was made to send the submissions forward. Please reach out to Matins if you would like further information.
Device:
Gyronny arrondi of sixteen azure and Or, a calamari gules, a chief enarched wavy counter-ermine.
**comments**
The College notes that the chief enarched wavy, especially on the gyronny arrondi field, is
difficult to identify.
This submission may fall afoul of a precedent in the June 2015 LoAR:
"Svein hammar. Device. Gyronny arrondi of sixteen azure and argent, an arm fesswise embowed Or and on a chief azure three mallets fesswise argent.
This device is returned for lack of documentation of the pattern used of a gyronny arrondi of sixteen with a central charge. Per SENA appendix G, a central charge on a gyronny arrondi field drawn with the corners of the field in the center of a gyron is a step from period practice. Per long standing precedent, a gyronny of sixteen with a central charge is also a step from period practice. Thus, the use of a gyronny arrondi of sixteen field with a central charge would need documented as an individually attested pattern."
We submit it for consideration with the possibility of new research since the Precedent was published.
The submitter will NOT accept MAJOR changes and cares about the sound (none specified) and the gender (male) of the name.
The submitter will not allow the creation of a holding name.
Geoffery - spelled <Geffray> in French Names from Chastenay, 1448-1457 by Sara L. Uckelman [https://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/chastenay.html]. Spelled <Gieffroy> in French Names from Paris, 1421, 1423, & 1438 by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman) [https://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423.html].
Bauer - from NCS “German Names from Nürnberg, 1497: Occupational Surnames” by Sara L. Uckelman: Bauer [https://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/surnamesnurnocc.html].
The French name formation <given + occupational byname> is found in SENA, Appendix A. The German name formation <given + occupational byname> is found in SENA, Appendix A. Per SENA, Appendix C, French and German are compatible.
Device:
Azure, a stag trippant with an orle of thorns Or.
Device submission ((Per chevron?) gules and sable, in saltire an arrow and a battle axe argent.) returned at the May 2019 West Kingdom meeting with the comments:
This device is returned for a per-chevron line of division that does not meet current Precedent and is not clearly a per-chevron division compared to a complex-line chief.
The West College recommends that the submitter work with a herald to re-submit an image with a properly placed line of division.
The submitter has addressed the comments in this resubmission.
Device:
Per chevron gules and sable, in saltire an arrow and a battle axe argent.
Device submission (Per fess rayonny argent and vert, a cricket purpure) was returned by Kingdom at the May 2023 meeting with the comments:
This is returned due to NonIdentifiability: the complexity of the cricket on top of the rayonny fess line renders the cricket unidentifiable.
The new submission’s redesign addresses this concern.
Device:
Per fess argent and vert, a cricket purpure.
The submitter marked the box to allow specific changes but did not note any, and cares about the language and/or culture (none noted) and gender (male) of the name.
Krysztof - from P. 14 of “A Preliminary Survey of Names from the Historical Dictionary of Personal Names in Białystok” by Lillia de Vaux (Rebecca S. Johnson) [https://st-walburga.aspiringluddite.com/docs/Bialystok.pdf] linked at https://s-gabriel.org/names/slavic.shtml. Dated to 1580. Variant spelling <Krzysztof>, several examples from 1540 to 1640.
Zatorski - NCS Slownick, volume 6, p. 276, under the header <Zatorski>. <Zathorsky> 1439, Mathias Zatorsky 1449, Michael Zatorsky 1452 - and many more. Valentini et Martini Zatorksi 1498, Nicolaus Zathorksi 1500.
The Polish name formation <given + byname> can be found in SENA, Appendix A. Per SENA, In Polish, i/y/j switches are common, and the use of accents is inconsistent. Names will be registered with or without accents as long as they are consistent.
Device:
Gules, a cockatrice displayed argent.
When considering for conflict, please note the 2011 Precedent that cockatrice’s are a DC from both wyverns and dragons.
Badge:
(Fieldless) A cockatrice displayed argent.
When considering for conflict, please note the 2011 Precedent that cockatrice’s are a DC from both wyverns and dragons.
The previously registered Álfrún Signesdóttir to be retained as an alternate.
The submitter marked the box to accept specified changes (byname meaning ‘of Knossos). The submitter cares about the meaning and language and/or culture (Last name desired to be "of Knossos" in ancient Greek (hellenic is fine!) ) and the gender (female) of the name.
The submitter will not accept the creation of a holding name, but this is not applicable as they already have a registered name.
Mika - from NCS “the lexicon of greek personal names”
[http://clas-lgpn5.classics.ox.ac.uk:8080/exist/apps/lgpn-api/browse.html?filterBy=nymRef&filter=%CE%9C%CE%AF%CE%BA%CE%B1].
223BC - Crete, 411BC - Athens
Knosia - in consultation with Aasa
tl;dr - the submitter thinks Knosia is the most likely feminine "of Knossos."
The submitter found "φιλοκνώσιος" (philoknosios), meaning "friend of the Cnossians," from which I am extrapolating "κνώσιος" (knosios) to mean "Cnossian(s)" or "person/people from Knossos" (noted: no idea of whether the plural differs from the singular, but for these purposes, assumption is that they are the same). Extrapolating further based on the example of "Συρακόσιος" (Surakosios) meaning "man from Syracuse" and "Συρακόσια" (Surakosia) meaning "woman from Syracuse" that "Κνώσιος" (Knosios) meaning "man from Knossos" points to the most likely form for "woman from Knossos" being "Κνώσια" (Knosia).
"φιλοκνώσιος" (philoknosios) - [https://artflsrv03.uchicago.edu/philologic4/LSJ/navigate/80/1/1195/].
"Συρακόσιος" (Surakosios) and "Συρακόσια" (Surakosia) [http://yarntheory.net/ursulageorges/names/classicalgreeknames.html#feminine].
The Greek name formation <given + family name> can be found, per SENA, in [https://heraldry.sca.org/names/byzantine/introduction.html].
Device:
Per pale sable and azure, a labrys, on a chief argent two serpents glissant fesswise vert.
West Note: the submitter previously went by the unregistered: Tøri Ræbjørn.
The submitter requests Authenticity for Viking Scandinavian Era and cares about the gender (female) of the name.
þóra - from NCS Bassi, p. 16.
from Viking Answer Lady, Old Norse Women's Name: Tóra - This name is a short form of feminine names in Þór-/Þúr-. Occurs in the runic nominative forms [tora] and tura. Sources: NR s.v. Tóra, Þór-/Þúr- [http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONWomensNames.shtml#t].
Rauðbjarnardóttir - <Rauðbjǫrn> is found in NCS Bassi, p. 14. Per Bassi, p. 18, the patronymic for names ending in <-bjǫrn> is formed by adding <-ar> and then <-son> or <dóttir>
- from Viking Answer Lady, Old Norse Men's Names: Rauðbjǫrn - The first element Rauð- is from the OW.Norse adjective rauðr "red." For the second element -bj#491;rn see above <corrected in the ‘see above’ link: -bjǫrn>. A short form of masculine names in Bjarn- or -bj#491;rn is Bjarni. GB p. 14 s.n. Rauðbjǫrn; FJ p. 348 s.n. -bj#491;rn; CV p. 66 s.v. björn; NR s.nn. -biǫrn, Biarni [http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml#r].
The Scandinavian name formation <given + patronymic> is found in SENA Appendix A. As per Precedent, all accents and diacritical marks are in use for the entirety of this name.
Device:
Gules, two penguins contourny and a point pointed argent.
West Note: the submitter previously went by the unregistered name Oongah Bhán.
The submitter will accept the following changes: Oonagh, Oona and marked no other boxes.
Úna - from NCS: O'Brien Kathleen M. “Index of Names in Irish Annals: Úna.” Version 2.6. [http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Una.shtml], 27 March 2008. Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) form: Úna.
Bhán - Bán: found in the Irish Annals by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan [http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Alpha.shtml], [http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Ban.shtml] dated to 858 to 1583.
From the commentary for <Aoife Bhán> on the May 2013 LoAR:
"The spelling of the last name was changed from the originally submitted "Bain" to "Bhán" … Thus, Bhán, the lenited nominative form. See "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" by Sharon Krossa [http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#descriptivebyname]".
The Gaelic name formation <given + descriptive byname> is found in SENA, Appendix A.
Device:
Azure semy of mullets of six points Or, a hart trippant regardant argent.
RETURNS
Device:
Azure, an antelope salient argent, attired and unguled purpure.
The previously registered Per bend sinister vert and azure, a stag's head erased contourny argent attired Or and a wolf's head erased argent is to be released upon registration.
This device is returned for conflict with: Athena Catarina of Windcrest, Device registered via the West 10/1982. Azure, an antelope rampant argent.
There is no difference between the submission and the registered device, as attiring and unguling are considered artistic details and do not count as a change.
Badge:
(Fieldless) An antelope salient argent, attired and unguled purpure.
The previously registered Or, an orca urinant proper and in chief two ducks rising addorsed wings displayed vert is to be released upon registration.
This badge is returned for conflict with: Athena Catarina of Windcrest, Device registered via the West 10/1982. Azure, an antelope rampant argent.
There is one Distinct Change for the change in field. Two DCs are required to clear conflict.
Badge:
Azure, a dove volant wings addorsed argent.
This badge is returned for conflict: Arianwen ferch Lawen, Device registered via Calontir 12-1987: Azure, a swallow volant within a bordure embattled argent.
There is one Distinct Change for the complex-line bordure, no difference between a dove and a swallow. Two DCs are required to clear conflict.
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