Minutes of the March, 2022 Heralds Meeting

Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page
Latest LoAR Info
Submissions to Laurel from this Meeting
Returns from this Meeting


MINUTES OF THE HERALDS MEETING – March 13, 2022
(11 am to 12:51 pm)

ATTENDEES:

Alizan De la Fontaine, Vesper; Edith of Swanesdale, Matins; Hirsch von Henford, Golem; Astrið of Swansvale, PaL; Seamus the Shameless, Rivenoak; Shimon Levi ben Yitzchak HaKohen, PaL; Rivka of Shushan, Blue Heron; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Green Banner; Ræv Kolfinnsson, Leveret; Domamir Vlatko syn, Seawolf; Caitriona inghean ui Chionaodha, Stellanordica; Angus Duncan Cameron, PEaL.

COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
The March, 2022 meeting was held via remote teleconference. Meetings for 2022: May 15, July 17, September 18, November 6. Meetings usually begin at 11:00 AM and will be held via online/remote teleconference until further notice (see also: When/Where Are the Next Meetings?).

The DEADLINES for submission forms and documentation are: Deadlines: May 4, July 6, September 7, October 26. Submission forms must be complete and received either via EMAIL or hardcopy by the deadline date at midnight to be considered at the next meeting (which is about 11 days later, except December due to holidays and the roadshow meeting prep time needed). If the forms are EMAILED, then payment must arrive by the meeting day. WALK-IN submissions will not be accepted while meetings are held via remote conference.


REPORTS

Vesper (Alizan): Still seeking candidates to take on the positions of Green Trumpet (town cry) deputy: Green Cloak (field) deputy; and Compline (successor to Principle Herald). Any interested parties should contact Vesper with their resumes (herald@westkingdom.org).

At the last KWHSS we discussed the following:

Future KWHSS: 2022 (update: this will be held as a Virtual event see https://heraldry.sca.org/kwhss/ for more information). KHWSS 2023 - bids are being accepted.

Virtual Herald's Point will start around May 22nd. Details TBA.


Seawolf (Damir): We've had several small events and court reports have been filed. Starting to prep for Coronet in a couple of weeks.


Sable Swan (Moira): No report received.


Stellanordica (Caitriona): Oertha has been relatively quiet. Coronet is coming up.


Exchequer (Damir): The College remains solvent. He'll be writing checks to get signatures at March Crown, so please get expenses to him before then. After Crown and Coronet, he'll be discussing with the Kingdom Exchequer and ePay team if accepting fees electronically is possible and how that would work logistically.


Matins (Edith): Submissions continue to flow through the process. If you are assisting submitters, and help them by emailing in their forms, please ensure they are aware of the requirement to mail their fees.


Green Crown (Eilis): As far as she can tell, all Courts held at Western events have been properly reported and have been/are being confirmed.

She is currently with Their Majesties and Their Highnesses of the Mists, Cynagua, and Oertha at Gulf Wars. She will make sure that any awards from that event are properly reported.

Spring Crown and Mists Coronet promise to be quite busy. She will be at both of those events to manage the court heraldry needs for Their Majesties -- she knows of two peerages at Mists Coronet.

Court Heralds' Regalia:
While she promised Norse apron panels for Spring Crown, they have been delayed due to personal reasons. All materials came from her stash and they will be ready by Beltane. There will also be a square cloak with crossed trumpets for Norse-presenting court heralds who are not wearing aprons. No reimbursement will be requested for these.

Anne FitzRichard is making two Skjoldhamm-style hoods appropriately embellished and suitable for use by any court herald who is wearing pre-14th-century garb. These will be ready for Spring Crown. No reimbursement will be requested for these.

We believe that we have discovered a linen suitable for the more formal tabards. These will be much more elaborate and we hope to have them ready by Twelfth Night. Materials costs will be requested for these. We do not have estimates yet since a great deal of the cost will depend on whether they are appliqued, embroidered, or use some other technique. Receipts will be provided. This set will also include coordinating baldrics for back-up heralds.

The search for the bag of court tabards continues, but we have pretty much given up on them showing up.

The bag of ceremony books is with Anne FitzRichard.


Baldric (Gwenhwyfaer): No report received.


Brachet (Kean), Leveret (Ræv): No report received.


Green Cloak (vacant): This position oversees Field Heralds for the Kingdom events (Crown tourneys, Wars, etc.). If interested in this position, please contact Vesper.


Green Trumpet (vacant): This position will oversee Town Cry (formerly called Duty Shout) and Heralds Point (information). If interested in this position, please contact Vesper.


Green Banner (Aasa): She has been consulting in and out of the Kingdom, including newcomers. She intends to be at Spring Crown with Consultation Table.


Golem (Hirsch): It’s been quiet since the last Herald’s meeting. Ræv took a break on the armory redraws, understandable considering how much he’s done so far. We’re down to a bit over 100 left, and he’s done close to 1,000 to date. The Who’s Who for the West Kingdom looks amazing now, with armory all over the place. 😉 Otherwise, not a lot happening. Would like to get any updates to the ceremony books (Principality and Kingdom) in, he knows there are some new ceremonies, among other things.



ANNOUNCEMENTS / Other Business

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Facebook Page: The West Kingdom Heralds' have their own page on Facebook, announcements, help with consultation, and more are often done there:

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/302970543102065/

MAILING LIST: The Yahoo hosted mailing lists have been closed by the folk at Yahoo. At this time, we no longer have a means of communicating with the College of Heralds except the Facebook Page noted above, or via email. To make it possible to post announcements from senior staff heralds, there is a new Announcements page (link removed, as this page was not used and removed from the site).

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Vesper at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

BRACHET MEETINGS

Contact brachet@heralds.westkingdom.org for external commenting participation.


FROM THE LOARS

The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

December, 2021 LoAR (printed February 2, 2022) (West - September, 2021 LoI)

Cover Letter

Cover Letter

West Acceptances - December LoAR

Acceptances

West Returns - December LoAR

None!


January, 2022 LoAR (printed March 13, 2022) (West - No LoI)

Cover Letter

Cover Letter

West Acceptances - January LoAR

None!

West Returns - January LoAR

None!


In Service,
Edith of Swanesdale, PaL,
Matins Herald


SUBMISSONS – March (2022)

ITEMS SENT TO LAUREL
Anne of Bradford (RESUB Badge sent to Laurel)

Argent, a peregrine falcon contourny proper, belled and jessed, between flaunches azure.

The original submission of this badge was Returned by Laurel on the June 2014 LoAR with the comments:

Argent, a falcon contourny sable between flaunches azure.

This device is in conflict with the device of Erc of Ringholden Argent, a raven close to sinister sable bearing in its beak an annulet gules, between a chief and a point pointed azure. There is no difference between a raven and a falcon. The annulet is a maintained charge that doesn't add a difference. There is a single DC for changing the type of secondaries, as all peripheral ordinaries are considered to be in the same charge group.

This device is not in conflict with the badge of Kathren of Sandesward Argent, a legless quail close to sinister reguardant sable. There is a substantial change between the poultry-shaped quail and the regular-shaped falcon.

The Rules change relating to sustained/maintained charges clears the conflict with Erc of Ringholden by allowing a DC for the presence of the annulet.


Eleanor the Gentle (NEW Name Change & Device sent to Laurel)

This is a Name Change, please release the previously registered name, Claire Bennett of Essex, registered in February of 2003 (via Caid), on registration of this name.

The submitter will NOT accept ANY changes and cares about the meaning (gentle/kind), sound (shortens to Ellie), and gender (female) of the name

Eleanor: NCS Withycombe, p. 96-97. First introduced into England by Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122-1204), the wife of King Henry II.

the Gentle: Compact Oxford English Dictionary: meaning, well-bred, noble, dated to 1225. Alternative meaning, mild in disposition or behavior, kind, tender, dated to 1552.

The English name formation <given + byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.

Armory:
Sable, a garb and a chief rayonny Or.

The West College believes this to be free of conflict, but presents for review:

  • Grane the Golden of Hippogriff Tower, registered September 1971, Sable, three stalks of wheat as in a garb, Or.
  • Please review the Nov 2013 LoAR:
    William Brewer. Device. Vert, a garb distilling two gouttes within a bordure Or.
    This device is returned for blurring the difference between charge groups. These gouttes as drawn are too small to be considered secondary charges, being more of the size expected from maintained drops. However, maintained drops would also be expected to be closer to the garb, if not outright touching it as they are distilled. Distilled gouttes are considered maintained charges in Society armory, and so do not count for difference. This device would then conflict with the device of Mædscir, Vert, a garb and in base a laurel wreath, a bordure Or, with a single DC for removing the secondary wreath. This device also then conflicts with the badge of Dagmaer or Nautaloek, Purpure, a garb within a bordure Or, with a single DC for the change in field. There may also be a conflict with the device of Óengus Minogue, Vert, a sheaf of five stalks of wheat and a bordure wavy Or, as there is a DC for the complex line of the bordure, but there may or may not be a DC for the difference between a sheaf of five stalks of wheat and a garb.

Gisele Pulver (NEW Name & Device sent to Laurel)

The submitter will NOT accept MAJOR changes and cares about the meaning (Pulver), the sound (Gisele), and the gender (female) of the name.

Gisele - from Family Search: Gisele Russell, married Oct 1597 in Thornford, Dorset, England (Batch M16055-1, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVG2-QH9, accessed 2/1/2022).

Pulver - from Family Search: Joane Pulver, christened 1 Oct 1576 in Wigtoft, Lincoln, England (Batch C03313-2, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGR8-JXC, accessed 11/3/2021)

The English name formation <given + byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.

Armory:
Per bend sinister vert and argent, a wolf’s head cabossed argent and a sprig of lavender bendwise sinister proper.


Grimbjorn Drifa (NEW Name & Device sent to Laurel)

The submitter cares about the meaning and language and/or culture (none noted) and the gender (male) of the name

Grimbjorn - from Gillian Fellows Jensen, “Scandinavian Personal names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire”, p.107

NCS Geirr Bassi shows Grimolfr (with some diacrititcals) and -bjorn is a prolific deuterotheme

Drifa - from NCS Geirr Bassi. p. 20 Column 2

The Scandinavian name formation <given + byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.

Armory:
Azure, two bears combattant, in base an escarbuncle, a bordure argent.

Please review: Þorlákr bjarki Eiríksson’s Azure, two bears combattant and in chief a compass star argent.


Margery Garret (NEW Badge sent to Laurel)

Argent, on a pale vert between two pawprints sable, a tower Or.

There is a SFCP for the use of pawprints.

Notes for the West:

The original submission of this badge was Returned by the West College in the September 2014 Minutes with the comments:

Argent, on a pale vert between two paw prints sable, a tower Or charged with a heart gules.

Complexity count of NINE (SENA A.3.E.2 generates a Step from Period Practice - see below), Paws are also SFPP, so just for those two things, this must be returned. Also, layer count of FOUR – “…Charges on tertiary charges are known as quaternary charges and are not allowed, unless documented as an Individually Attested Pattern.” (SENA Appendix I.C.).

Ref. SENA A.3.E.2 “We require that any submission not exceed a certain "complexity count," measured by adding the number of types of charges to the number of tinctures. Items with a complexity count of eight or less receive no penalty for complexity from this rule. … An item with a complexity count of nine or higher that follows a period pattern of charges and tinctures may be registered, but may need to be documented as an Individually Attested Pattern.”

This submission removes the “heart gules” to clear both the complexity count concerns and the tertiary charge concern.


Richard Rober Tissot (NEW Device sent to Laurel)

Azure, a gazelle’s head couped, on a chief Or two spears fesswise in pale proper.



William of the Red Valley (NEW Name)

The submitter cares about the gender (male) of the name.

William - from NCS Withycombe p.293 ‘William’: “introduced into England by the Normans in the 11th C, from which time it has held its place as one of the commonest men’s names”.

of the Red Valley - no documentation provided.

If ‘of the Red Valley’ is not possible, the submitter will accept the name ‘William Raikes’:

Raikes - from NCS Reaney & Wilson page 371, under the header Rake, Raikes. Nicholas Raikes, son of Thomas Rakes, 1585.

The English name formation <given + byname> is found in SENA Appendix A.

**comments** The West College was not able to document ‘William of the Red Valley’ but our members did provide the following research:

Provided by Astrith of Swansvale:

<of the Red Valley> Ekwall [pp 383-384] has numerous place names combining <Red-> with a landscape feature. In most cases, <Red-> actually means <reed>, but <reed valley> is certainly possible as a place name. And two of the place names specifically refer to the red color of the soil. All the examples have the words combined, e.g., Redbridge, Redcliff, Redhill. <Redcombe> would be a name meaning <red valley> or "reed valley". Ekwall p 385 under the header <Renscombe> dates <Romescombe> to the Domesday Book and <Rembescumb> to 1212.

<William of Redcombe> means "William from Red Valley" or "William from Reed Valley".

<-combe, -coombe>: Farncombe [Ekwall p 174, Fernecome 1086; Farncumbe 1348], Ilfracombe [p 262: Alfreincome 1086, Alfredscumbe 1249, Ilfridecumbe 1279], Salcombe [p 401: Saltecumbe 1244, Saltcomb 1303, Sealtcumbe c1070, Selccome 1086, Saltcumb 1242].

<-dale>: Airedale, Rochdale, Weardale

<-dean>: Croydon, Walkden, Horndean

The formations <-dale> and <-dean> would also be possible under this documentation.

Astrith submits <Redcombe> as the version she found most appealing when spoken.

Provided by Derelei filia Uoret:

The Middle English Dictionary has a few examples of place names or locative bynames with variants of "valley":

(1199) CRR(1) 1435 : Radulphus de la Valeie. (1346) in Reaney Dict.Br.Surnames361 : Richard atte Valeye. (1451) EPNSoc.19 (Cmb.)348 : Le Valey.

They also had examples "In phrases denoting specific valleys" that had modifiers, but skimming quickly through their examples, most sounded literary.

Lingua Societatus would allow this to be translated to ‘William of the Valley’


RETURNS

None.


ADMINISTRATIVE RETURNS

Lúcás new name and device submissions were not reviewed due to a lack of fees.


Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page